Curse

selber · Sep 05, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

This event just shows how bad the usual Tombsplayers are nowadays. They can't kite, can't adept, can't be smart enough to figure out builds by themselfs and complain everyone runs the same builds.

6v6 is alot better, every good player i know agreed here - unfortunatly the untalented scrubs are the majority. Tombs will be dead again if they change it back to 8v8.

Lord Mendes · Sep 05, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by selber

This event just shows how bad the usual Tombsplayers are nowadays. They can't kite, can't adept, can't be smart enough to figure out builds by themselfs and complain everyone runs the same builds.

Honestly when r u guys gonna cut that out. FFS good tombs players know how to kite and adapt to situations. There r good tomb players and bad tomb players, just like there r good GvGers and bad GvGers. The problem with tombs is that half r9+ l33tests are the bad type, but plz that does not mean that they all suck.
Plz dont assume that all these people that cant kite are all tombs players. Hell i came up against people from top rated guilds and they werent doing so well when it came 2 adapting to situations.

yesitsrob · Sep 05, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

if they were to make the change permanent it must suck for some HA guilds. Came across a few of them and some of them only actually lose because 6v6 is for nubs if you were wondering. (that's what they said anyway)

I'd personally hope it's a test for some other thing that may be added with nighfall - the variety of the builds being faced is even less than in 8v8. I just found 6v6 to be even more rock-paper-scissors since with 48 skills there's a lot less room for utility

Mental Leteci · Sep 05, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Event was made for GvG players. So everyone shut up.

selber · Sep 05, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

... because we all know Tombs (8v8) > GvG. Haha.

TimTimTimma · Sep 05, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

I see alot of people who say they hate the weekend are saying 6v6 is nothing but vim, iway, and smite. You act like it wasn't there in 8v8 ffs. You seem upset you don't get as many skills. Why are you complaining about the shortage of skills, when the number of skills you have don't actually dictate how you perform, but how/when/where you use the limited amount of skills you get dictate how you perform. Are you a monk that is mad because you no longer get that AWESOME +8 energy from channeling when you stand in a group of enemies when casting a 5 energy spell?

"Oh noes, i only get 1 extra energy per cast now! I CALL FOUL! FOUL! I QUIT IF NOT CHANGED BACK"

Everyone is complaining but nobody is really offering reasons as to why they are bitching. I want to hear one reasonable arguement that doesn't involve there are "vim, iway, smite" because they are going to be there in 8v8 too!

If one person come up with a good argument that explains why HA would benefit the gaming communityn at 8v8 more than 6v6 you will have my vote.

Mental Leteci · Sep 05, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Look,if you don't like Tombs like they are don't play it and stick to GvG like you do. I don't like GvG so I don't play it. I don't see a problem in that,everyone has his type of fights. You're underestimating Tombs players. You talk shit about them now when Tombs are 6v6. I'd like to see you in Tombs 8v8.

TimTimTimma · Sep 05, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Look,if you don't like Tombs like they are don't play it and stick to GvG like you do. I don't like GvG so I don't play it. I don't see a problem in that,everyone has his type of fights. You're underestimating Tombs players. You talk shit about them now when Tombs are 6v6. I'd like to see you in Tombs 8v8.

You still haven't presented a reason to keep HA 8v8

Lord Mendes · Sep 05, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimTimTimma

You still haven't presented a reason to keep HA 8v8

Because 6v6 favors Vim, Iway, etc. Granted they r stil easy 2 beat and i havent lost to em this weekend but they r RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing everywhere man. Making tombs RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing boring for those of us that think and not just spam skills.

tomcruisejr · Sep 05, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Must keep HA 8vs8 so that there will be more variety - quality builds such as rangerspike, bloodspike, obsidian spike, fire ele spike, monk spike, ooa iway, vimway, choking gas builds, nr/tranq, crap sb/infuse (insert whatever here) builds. certainly, these builds are run with skill.

moreover, 8vs8 HA is good because it promotes bad kiting and 3-2-1 or spam syndrome.

Minus Sign · Sep 05, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katina

It was interesting to try out, but 6v6 being permanent? No thanks. Theres already less variety 8v8.

At least they are doing "reward" events for PvP, rather than that double gold chest shit..

QFT. 6v6 was fun, but I won't miss it. I'd rather see a new 6v6 arena than try to tear down HA. Its the best of both worlds, so why would anyone complain? The people who want 6v6 get 6v6; the people who want HA to stay the way it is get their way too.

TimTimTimma · Sep 05, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Because 6v6 favors Vim, Iway, etc. Granted they r stil easy 2 beat and i havent lost to em this weekend but they r RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing everywhere man. Making tombs RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing boring for those of us that think and not just spam skills.

You talk as if thats all you see, certainly this is the case for the first two or three maps but not for the rest. And if there are some vimways that get past the few first maps by skillfully beating the teams they go up against then more power to them, not all vimways are total crap we ran into one or two god ones over the weekend.

Mental Leteci · Sep 05, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Dude,there is no such thing as good vimway. Fighting a good vimway means you're in a bad group. Only way you can lose to vimway is if you make a mistake (such as not killing nr and qz,or not running away from rangers,balling in wards,etc.). Anyway I'm not bothered by vimway etc. FotM will always exist,but I don't like this GvG-like style. I don't play GvG for a reason and now they're trying to make HA as GvG with fame.

Lord Mendes · Sep 06, 2006, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimTimTimma

You talk as if thats all you see, certainly this is the case for the first two or three maps but not for the rest. And if there are some vimways that get past the few first maps by skillfully beating the teams they go up against then more power to them, not all vimways are total crap we ran into one or two god ones over the weekend.

And not all HA players are crap either. I am exagerating a bit but so are u. Well all back 2 normal now.

Vaga · Sep 06, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

I waited until I played 8v8 again to make a decision on what I liked better. Without a doubt 6v6 is more fun. 8v8 people run the most insanely boring builds, with just enough offense to kill things. The majority of the characters used in HA require next to no skill. Whats the fun in matches coming down to who can interupt the ghostly hero with their dual seeking arrows the most? It just isn't fun at all. This is compared to 6v6 where if a team plays agressively they can completely wipe any team who just plans on holding the altar for 10 minutes. Basically, 6v6 eliminates all the crappy safeguards people have in place so that theres practically no chance of them losing without people having an error 7 or coming up against the complete counter of their build.

Aside from this 6v6 really opened my eyes as to somthing guild wars is missing. Only have 6 players? HA is perfectly viable.

I can understand that there are people who enjoy the 8v8 play, who like to make kind of gimmicks that give them the edge for a while so they can get ahead in the fame game. Theres also some people who enjoy being able to hold for long periods of time because it's actually good money. The fact is though 8v8 HA is dieing, thats why even at peak hours you only have to play a few maps before getting a jump to HA. 6v6 is looking more and more like a step in the right direction for HA.

Anet really needs to make a decision soon about whether or not they are going to make it 6v6, or keep it 8v8. I think the most underlying problem in HA is still the maps. I think that the objectives could be made better as well as the environments, and the maps are contributing just as much to the problems HA has as the number of players in each match.

If the maps were to stay the same I'm definently pro 6v6 despite some of its downfalls.

Opeth · Sep 06, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Because 6v6 favors Vim, Iway, etc.

lol...i only see VIMs and IWAYS on the 1st 3-4 maps....then no more brainless builds. Ofc there are exceptions, but only a few per day. Anyway ViM and Iway its kinda easy to defeat, if you think a little....

Zui · Sep 06, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Because 6v6 favors Vim, Iway, etc. Granted they r stil easy 2 beat and i havent lost to em this weekend but they r RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing everywhere man. Making tombs RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing boring for those of us that think and not just spam skills.

Umm, and 8 vs 8 Heroes' Ascent wasn't infested with IWAY, ViMway, Holding Builds, and Caster Spikes such as Opressive Gaze Spike, and Blood Spike?

BlueNovember · Sep 06, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Why are many people complaining about cookie-cutter builds "infesting" HA? It doesn't matter if 6v6 favours them, it doesn't matter if they take no skill, they're viable builds, and they win matches. Play to Win.

Quote:

Must keep HA 8vs8 so that there will be more variety - quality builds such as rangerspike, bloodspike, obsidian spike, fire ele spike, monk spike, ooa iway, vimway, choking gas builds, nr/tranq, crap sb/infuse (insert whatever here) builds. certainly, these builds are run with skill.

moreover, 8vs8 HA is good because it promotes bad kiting and 3-2-1 or spam syndrome.

6v6 will eventually develop more variety. Even during the course of the event builds were changing.
If the spike builds you listed are "Quality", what would you call "3-2-1 spam syndrome?" And there's no way OoA IWAY is in the same skill legaue as those other builds, but let's keep that discussion out of here.
As for the "quality build" comment, see above link.

The prevalence of cookie-cutters is related to the ease of forming a pug with them, not necessarily unimaginativeness of the players. Case in point, I spent 20 minutes trying to organise a soulbarbs/recurring spike with some water hexes and aoe, someting I'd been wanting to try for a while. After 20 mins we only had 4 of the players, and no-one apart from myself had Recurring Insecurity unlocked, an we ended up disbanding. This was with r3-5 players.
I rolled an AoE smiter, and found a group in 3 minutes, getting an easy ~15 fame. I went from r3 to r5 over the weekend playing smite and nr/tranq with pugs; cookie cutter ftw.

There were some very good modded dual-smites that won halls, and held for a considerable time. (Pol from our alliance got to 32 fame per win using a dual smite, for example).
~

Lord Dark Genie · Sep 06, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNovember

Why are many people complaining about cookie-cutter builds "infesting" HA? It doesn't matter if 6v6 favours them, it doesn't matter if they take no skill, they're viable builds, and they win matches. Play to Win.

You completely missed WHY people complain about gimmicks in this thread.

Quote:

As for the "quality build" comment, see above link.

You probably missed the /sarcasm that he forgot to type...

BlueNovember · Sep 06, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

You completely missed WHY people complain about gimmicks in this thread.

Please enlighten me. I don't see how their arguements good be any more than petty:
"It's lame" "It takes no skill" "Everyone farms fame with it" "Your tiger is from smite/rpsike/bspike" "Your build is unorriginal" "Boring" "Lame"...
If there's a valid reason to complain about cookie-cutter builds that was mentioned in this thread, then yes, I missed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dark Genie

You probably missed the /sarcasm that he forgot to type...

Aye, looking back on it, it probbly was sarcasm. That's even more irritating, as having played in an r6+ Rspike and bloodspike, the amount of co-ordination it takes is comparable to a pressure / degen / hex-stacking teams (the builds that people tend to give more respect to).

Edit:
Another thing, cookie-cutters are not gimmicks in the sense you are using the word. A gimmick is just something original or innovative, usually a clever trick. In the context of HA, it should mean the exact opposite of cookie-cutter.